Page 1 of 2

DXCC: Separate LoTW and QSL Card Submissions

Posted: 19 Mar 2016, 13:34
by ac5aa
Since the ARRL (now) treats DXCC submissions separately for LoTW verifications and QSL Cards, it would make sense to be able to do these separately in Log4OM. For this one would typically want:

1. QSL Card submission should only generate a list of QSL's for submission that ignores all valid LoTW's that have been received for that band/mode combination. So, for example, a QSO with a QSL card received *and* a LoTW "Valid" response should not generate a QSL card submission (since it's more easily done via LoTW).

2. LoTW should be a separate submission since these are done directly in LoTW and do not need to be prepared in Log4OM, only to be "Credited" once that credit is received.

Hopefully, these could be "one button" actions, but I know some like to check off a card submission immediately on reception of a needed card, so that flexibility (as currently exists for selecting QSO's) should remain. I hope others find this to be a useful change.

73, Duane

Re: DXCC: Separate LoTW and QSL Card Submissions

Posted: 19 Mar 2016, 14:33
by K7PT
In Log4OM, A LOTW "V" status means exactly what it says, it has been Validated and is ready for submission. You still must "Submit" the QSO via a LOTW Application for Credit request. LOTW credit is very quick (less the a day in most cases) for Validated LOTW QSOs.

Cards are completely different in that you must either get a Card Checker to "Validate" the QSO or submit them to the ARRL via mail for Validation and Submission.

So, if I'm going make a submission for credit, both LOTW and cards, I would want a list of both separately.

Re: DXCC: Separate LoTW and QSL Card Submissions

Posted: 19 Mar 2016, 18:11
by ac5aa
Exactly. So, you're agreeing with me then?

Re: DXCC: Separate LoTW and QSL Card Submissions

Posted: 19 Mar 2016, 19:34
by K7PT
I guess so. There are a number of things that come to my mind in this regard as time and resources permit. For the moment, things like this are on the back burner with many, many more important issues in our bug/wish list tracking (Mantis) system. 8-)

Re: DXCC: Separate LoTW and QSL Card Submissions

Posted: 19 Mar 2016, 19:39
by ac5aa
OK, understood. Having just been through the process of trying to submit a card list and, as part of the process, having all my LoTW "V"s also turned into credit submitted value, then having to go back and reset all of those (still in the process), it just seemed like this could be done more easily by creating 2 processes - one for cards, one for LoTW. I certainly understand prioritization of the workload, and I'll let the experts figure all of that out. Thanks for the consideration.

73, Duane

Re: DXCC: Separate LoTW and QSL Card Submissions

Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 21:46
by W7DRM
To add my thought to this thread.

First the inconsistencies: There seems to be two statuses for “Submitted”.

1) Checking the Submitted to Card Checker checkbox on the QSL information tab of the QSO, which sets the Submission Status database field to “ARRL’, and sets the Statistics and Awards grid to S in lighter amber color. This is the method which I use – and I set this status when I receive a QSL card for which I know is a new band or mode for that particular country/entity. And this status can also be set by clicking on a grid with purple C for Confirmed and the Submit to Card Checker window opens which allows you to check the Submit box.

2) The other way is to use the Actions/Validated QSO/Suggest QSO for Submission & then Mark Suggested as Submitted feature. This places data on the award into the Credit Submitted database field, and turns the Statistics and Awards grid into a darker amber color with S in the grid, and “Credit Submitted” in the QSO Status field of the Statistics and Awards grid.

Not sure why the two different methods above, unless one is to mark QSL (cards) for submission (in the future), and the other is to mark QSL’s as having been submitted (past submission). If that is the case, need to change the wording so the first method is clearly for future submissions – as in “Mark for Submission”, rather than “Mark QSL as submitted to a Card Checker”.

Assuming 1) above is intended to mark for future submission, there needs to be a way to bulk mark for future submission. Right now, the only way it appears to mark these for submission is to do them one record at a time. None of the Actions options at the bottom of the Statistics and Awards grid will mark records in this way. It just marks them as Credit Submitted status. Again, not sure of the point of this status. In my view, I want my qso’s marked for future submission, then when they are validated, I want to mark them as validated. I really don’t care if there is a status of “at the card checker”. But that may just be me.

The problem with using 2) method above, is that that method generates qso’s from BOTH QSL cards and LotW which have been confirmed but not submitted for credit. That is not very helpful! The user needs a way to just get a list of QSL cards only to submit!

In looking at a new way to bulk mark cards for submission, I envision a feature which allows you to go to Statistics and Awards, DXCC Mixed for example, and either select all QSL’s which would count for DXCC Mixed award, but another option for “All Band” awards. This way you would not have to go through each band and run the process. Same for All modes award. I am suggesting that running these selections would mark the QSO’s as in 1) above.

I am also wondering why there are two different options on the Actions/Validated QSO – Suggest QSO for Submission and Mark Suggested as Submitted? I don’t understand why Suggested QSO for Submission? What if you did not want a particular QSO selected? Is there a way to unselect a QSO? If not, why have that option? And again, I would trade away both of these options to have a way to mark for submission by all bands and all modes, and again, only for confirmed CARDS.

As a reference, here is the other thread on this issue: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2201

Thanks to Duane - AC5AA - for bringing up this subject.

I hope this makes sense.

Doug - W7DRM

Re: DXCC: Separate LoTW and QSL Card Submissions

Posted: 07 Jun 2016, 16:24
by ac5aa
I need to tag on one more comment to this thread. After QSL's have been Validated and the credits have been granted, I don't see any method to now set these to be "Granted" in the database other than using QSO Archive manager to accomplish that (and I haven't figured out what exactly needs to be altered to correctly reflect that yet.) We really do need a process for QSL card submission separate from LoTW. In my mind, I don't really need to distinguish "s"ubmission to the card checker from "S"ubmission to the ARRL since I think of the checker as the ARRL's rep for DXCC. But some may want to include that extra step. At this point, I need to update my log to include those QSO's whose cards which were submitted and granted . . .

Re: DXCC: Separate LoTW and QSL Card Submissions

Posted: 07 Jun 2016, 22:33
by K7PT
In all reality, the LOTW "Submission" is almost meaningless in that the submission for credit is approved within hours, with a day or two max. So, just consider the "Submitted" for your cards.

As for the "Granted" status, if the QSO was as a result of a LOTW verification, the status will be updated automatically if you re-download the LOTW matches in your LOTW logbook with the ARRL.

How to update your LOTW credits:

What I do on occasion, is go back several years and download my LOTW matches just to catch any credits I may have missed.

For paper cards submitted and credit Granted:

For cards, different story, you do "Submit" them or at least the checker does through his paperwork and you need to manually check the correct boxes for the QSO submitted. There is no way for Log4OM to know what you've done or what cards you've submitted.

Re: DXCC: Separate LoTW and QSL Card Submissions

Posted: 09 Jun 2016, 03:16
by ac5aa
This probably should be in the user support section of the forum. What I was attempting to describe is QSL card submission. I submitted a batch of cards, and I had marked all the cards I submitted as "s"ubmitted (yellow/gold color marker). Now I don't see a "button" to push or item to select from an "action list" that will convert those to "S"ubmitted, or to "G"ranted status. I'll go back to the manual to triple check that I didn't miss it. I'm not even sure what fields to update to change those (I have a query that pulls them into a list.) In other software there are methods (usually simple commands or buttons) to move those marked QSO's along to the next step in the process.

Thanks for the response, Doug.

Re: DXCC: Separate LoTW and QSL Card Submissions

Posted: 09 Jun 2016, 08:26
by K7PT
Open a QSO and click on the "Awards" tab. The check boxes on the left are for "Submitted" and the right are for "Granted".

As I noted before, if you do another download back, say six months ago, it should update the Granted side for those that you have received a ARRL LOTW credit for.

As I noted for cards, you'll have to check them manually for each QSO.