manual frequency correction leaves RX freq in Sat/prop field unchanged leading to "cross" band recorded on LOTW

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Re: manual frequency correction leaves RX freq in Sat/prop field unchanged leading to "cross" band recorded on LOTW

Post by IW3HMH » 13 Apr 2016, 13:22

RX Frequency is also used when you work in SPLIT mode, if your radio supports this information to the CAT.
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Re: manual frequency correction leaves RX freq in Sat/prop field unchanged leading to "cross" band recorded on LOTW

Post by yo3ipr » 13 Apr 2016, 13:52

Hi Daniel

If there is a need to support "cross band" working , please include that function in the main QSO details tab and set it off by default, and when cross band or satellite is not enabled please leave RX frequency disabled. This will solve the problem. Only satellite users need to see the TX & RX frequency separately. At any other times split frequency is usually in the same band and the convention when working DX-peditions / Repeaters etc. is to show your RX frequency as the QSO frequency and not record your TX frequency separately.

This is an important issue and needs to be addressed correctly before more people are affected by it. Already there may be many invalid LOTW entries as a result of this change in the last release and most users will not know why it has happened.

Thanks & 73
Tony YO3IPR

P.S.
I do not know what "other" logbook programs do but if some use the "TX frequency" as the QSO frequency this would explain why some people (automatically?) post their "TX frequency" on the DX Cluster when spotting DX-Peditions working split. This is clearly wrong and just confuses everyone. It is always the "RX frequency" that should be used when logging a QSO. The "TX frequency" is only needed when working cross band (usually satellite or repeaters).

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Re: manual frequency correction leaves RX freq in Sat/prop field unchanged leading to "cross" band recorded on LOTW

Post by yt9tp » 18 Apr 2016, 07:28

I edited QSO frequency for few QSO's and then I realized that RX and TX frequencies differs as frequencies are not both updated.

I second yo3ipr+s suggestion. Do not let application create false split operations. Use split mode only when obvious, otherwise, disable it.

Also, I noticed that when I enter new QSO and enter frequency, it goes to TX frequency field. RX frequency is left zero. It should be at least reversed, ans RX frequency is what matters. If not working split, both fields should be set to the same frequency.

I am often working portable so i log on paper and then retype in Log4OM. This is one more issue that makes this complicated and user non friendly.
YT9TP, op. Pedja, QTH Uzice, Serbia, http://www.yt9tp.iz.rs

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Re: manual frequency correction leaves RX freq in Sat/prop field unchanged leading to "cross" band recorded on LOTW

Post by G4POP » 18 Apr 2016, 07:41

The TX frequency is the mandatory frequency to log not the RX
73 Terry G4POP

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Re: manual frequency correction leaves RX freq in Sat/prop field unchanged leading to "cross" band recorded on LOTW

Post by yo3ipr » 18 Apr 2016, 19:58

Yes Terry, from a licensing perspective one should log the TX frequency but this is not what is usually done when working split frequency in the same band such as when working DX-peditions.

I think the correct approach here is to set the "QSO" frequency in the main QSO tab as the RX Frequency and the separate field in the satellite tab should be the TX frequency - the latter only being operational when satellite or split mode is selected by the user. This will satisfy the method that everyone uses in practice and not provide false data to the DX cluster like some logging programs seem to do when automatic upload to cluster is set (although personally I think any automatic upload to cluster option should be removed as the clusters are already too full. The cluster should never be used as an extension of someone's log).

73 Tony YO3IPR

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Re: manual frequency correction leaves RX freq in Sat/prop field unchanged leading to "cross" band recorded on LOTW

Post by K7PT » 18 Apr 2016, 20:10

You always log the DX TX frequency as he is generally listening over many MHZ. It really makes no difference as the ARRL only is concerned with the band.

And, if I send a card where I was TX on 14216 and the DX was on 14195 and I put on the card 14216 (my TX), the manager could reject my card because the DX was TX on 14195 not 14216.

There is no requirement, in the U.S., to log anything, absolutely nothing, from a FCC (regulatory) standpoint.
K7PT-Chuck "#1 Top of the Honor Roll"

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Re: manual frequency correction leaves RX freq in Sat/prop field unchanged leading to "cross" band recorded on LOTW

Post by yo3ipr » 18 Apr 2016, 21:13

Hi Chuck, Yes, many countries now have no licensing requirement for a log, others require logs to be kept for a certain period of time, others require them in perpetuity.

Anyway, what you said agrees my statement that the logged frequency should always be my RX frequency (i.e the DX TX frequency).

Thanks & 73
Tony YO3IPR / G4IPR

P.S Also thanks to Pedja YT9TP for his earlier post.

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Re: manual frequency correction leaves RX freq in Sat/prop field unchanged leading to "cross" band recorded on LOTW

Post by G4POP » 18 Apr 2016, 21:25

When Ofcom come knocking on my door about an interference complaint they don't give a fig what receive frequency I was on, just the transmission frequency.
73 Terry G4POP

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Re: manual frequency correction leaves RX freq in Sat/prop field unchanged leading to "cross" band recorded on LOTW

Post by K7PT » 18 Apr 2016, 22:54

Terry,
What you say is indeed true but we are talking logging a QSO not defending our self due to a complaint. Apples and tomatoes.
K7PT-Chuck "#1 Top of the Honor Roll"

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Re: manual frequency correction leaves RX freq in Sat/prop field unchanged leading to "cross" band recorded on LOTW

Post by yo3ipr » 18 Apr 2016, 22:59

Terry, I doubt very much the licensing authority in any country needs much accuracy on frequency for determining interference issues, just the band should be enough. In fact many people only every recorded the band on paper logs years ago.

Anyway, this is missing the point entirely, and contrary to what you say, recording your TX frequency as the QSO frequency is not the practice by those of us who work DX-peditions who run split frequency and, as I said, this is clearly an issue with other logging programs too, evidenced by the incorrect reports that appear on the cluster.

This issue only began when version 1.23 was released, so I guess I will either revert to using version 1.22 or just put up with it and have in mind that I need to take care when manually editing records not to end up with what looks like a cross band QSO and is reported as such by LOTW if uploaded unchecked.

I still don't see why RX frequency is recorded unless satellite mode is enabled anyway. This is where the problem began. It was clearly intended for satellite use only (it is under the satellite tab, and there is no mention of "crossband" operation anywhere in LOG4OM).

Daniele has provided a partial fix in version 1.25 in that if "suspend CAT" is used it will set both QSO frequency and RX frequency to zero, but it doesn't really resolve the issue overall.

I have offered a number of suggestions, one of which is to have the TX frequency recorded somewhere, while keeping the main QSO frequency as the RX frequency, they could even be side by side in the main window, perhaps with the TX frequency being smaller to avoid confusion.

My goal is the same as yours, to make this the best logging program out there. I make suggestions to address issues that appear, not for the sake of criticism, and the topic of this thread is an important one as a great many people use LOTW and some may already have wrongly recorded log entries without realizing it or knowing how they happened.

I think I have said all that I can on the subject and I hope it will be addressed in a way that works for everyone.

Thanks & 73
Tony YO3IPR / G4IPR

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